My initial thought was that BOTH guys express some valid ideas. However, we see the problem in the “Emergent” guy in his disconnect from the gospel. If diconnected from the gospel what is the motive for mission?
Sadly I think this reflects the thinking of a lot of church leaders and church shoppers. The problem is not found in new expressions or making people feel comfortable (I wouldn’t mind a little Starbucks). And there is no virture in being “traditional”. It seems to me that the root question is whether we are “ashamed of the gospel” or whether we embrace and apply the gospel and endeavor to live out the implications of the gospel.
I’ve definitely benefited from a “learning community” and many mentors. Those mentors and that learning community is the way God helped me see that the gospel is enough. In my mind it takes a learning community to keep you convinced (despite consumerist pressures) that preaching a foolish message is actually strategic and visionary.
I liked the video ! Kinda of funny and sad as well. Dennis I like your perspective above.
Point is God uses different kinds of Churches to reach His people.
The Gospel is the power of God for Salvation….. I hope we learn to use all the tools available to us show the world Jesus and His love. I think it’s a sad commentary when Churches don’t use available tools that help them to be Gospel Centered in their quest to develop disciples, to be missional, attractional, available, open, embracing of people, encouraging, and especially culturally relevant.
I want God to transform my congregation. God help us if I do it only by my strength. But maybe by trying to be simple we are setting the bar too low for what it means to follow Jesus and be transformed. My frustration is that so many I meet do not know what the life means, but they know the words about salvation. Applying or living out the implications of the gospel , as Dennis referred to, need close fellowship to accomplish, I think. Does that mean personal faith is futile?
Don’t think close fellowship is really the answer, what ever you mean by that. Certanily personal fiath is a must as we know. Just maybe the following will help:
A lot of Churches have no unified purpose short of having Sunday morning Worship.
They hold on to old and outdated structures. Some denominational stuff here.
They don’t define & implement specific strategies for real disciple making.
Don’t embrace new leadership.
Fail to establish new systems.
And maybe a host of other things. Hard for transformation to happen without specific and deliberate planning in an intergrated fashion. Being serious about Matt 28:18-20.
Then using all the tools that are available today. The issue is about people. The job of the Pastor is to teach, equip and train the Saits to do the ministry. Lives will be transformed as a result. Nothing like the people getting others focused for God’s Glory and not ourselves.
GRACE & PEACE 
My first profound reaction was that the pastor (the staying seated guy)sounds like Tim Kellar of Redeemer.
My initial thought was that BOTH guys express some valid ideas. However, we see the problem in the “Emergent” guy in his disconnect from the gospel. If diconnected from the gospel what is the motive for mission?
Sadly I think this reflects the thinking of a lot of church leaders and church shoppers. The problem is not found in new expressions or making people feel comfortable (I wouldn’t mind a little Starbucks). And there is no virture in being “traditional”. It seems to me that the root question is whether we are “ashamed of the gospel” or whether we embrace and apply the gospel and endeavor to live out the implications of the gospel.
I’ve definitely benefited from a “learning community” and many mentors. Those mentors and that learning community is the way God helped me see that the gospel is enough. In my mind it takes a learning community to keep you convinced (despite consumerist pressures) that preaching a foolish message is actually strategic and visionary.
I liked the video ! Kinda of funny and sad as well. Dennis I like your perspective above.
Point is God uses different kinds of Churches to reach His people.
The Gospel is the power of God for Salvation….. I hope we learn to use all the tools available to us show the world Jesus and His love. I think it’s a sad commentary when Churches don’t use available tools that help them to be Gospel Centered in their quest to develop disciples, to be missional, attractional, available, open, embracing of people, encouraging, and especially culturally relevant.
I want God to transform my congregation. God help us if I do it only by my strength. But maybe by trying to be simple we are setting the bar too low for what it means to follow Jesus and be transformed. My frustration is that so many I meet do not know what the life means, but they know the words about salvation. Applying or living out the implications of the gospel , as Dennis referred to, need close fellowship to accomplish, I think. Does that mean personal faith is futile?
Charlie,
Don’t think close fellowship is really the answer, what ever you mean by that. Certanily personal fiath is a must as we know. Just maybe the following will help:
A lot of Churches have no unified purpose short of having Sunday morning Worship.
They hold on to old and outdated structures. Some denominational stuff here.
They don’t define & implement specific strategies for real disciple making.
Don’t embrace new leadership.
Fail to establish new systems.
And maybe a host of other things. Hard for transformation to happen without specific and deliberate planning in an intergrated fashion. Being serious about Matt 28:18-20.
Then using all the tools that are available today. The issue is about people. The job of the Pastor is to teach, equip and train the Saits to do the ministry. Lives will be transformed as a result. Nothing like the people getting others focused for God’s Glory and not ourselves.